RAW ENERGY HOTLINE
God thought of mother, He must have laughed with satisfaction,
and framed it quicklyso rich, so deep, so divine, so full of soul, power
and beauty, was the conception.
Everybody knows that a good mother gives her children a feeling of trust and stability. She is their earth. She is the one they can count on for the things that matter most of all. She is their food and their bed and the extra blanket when it grows cold in the night; she is their warmth and their health and their shelter; she is the one they want to be near when they cry. She is the only person in the whole world in a whole lifetime who can be these things to her children. There is no substitute for her. Somehow even her clothes feel different to her children's hands from anybody else's clothes. Only to touch her skirt or her sleeve makes a troubled child feel better.
1) Rhio & Leigh's internet
radio station gets off to a good start with some publicity.
2) Rhio responds to Frederic Patenaude's evaluation of the Master Cleanser Program
3) Fruitarian Diet and 80/10/10 Version of the Fruitarian Diet - Part 2 - (Part 1)
1) Rhio & Leigh's internet radio station gets off to a good start with some publicity.
We launched our internet
radio station January 15th and it's been covered in the local paper, The Tribeca
Trib, and also in the New York Times of Sunday, March 5th. Whoopee!! We're off
to a good start but we need to spread the word around and get more listeners
that are interested in healthy living information, as well as progressive political,
social and environmental views, good music and much more. Don't forget to tune
in at: www.TribecaRadio.net
The health shows begin at 4 pm and go through 9 pm US Eastern Standard Time. There are also some health shows scattered throughout. Our programming is only 1/3 complete at this point, but within a very short time, the empty spots will be filled in. For those that don't know, you can tune into the station on your computer and then continue to work on your computer in other programs and even on the internet while listening. My show Hooked on Raw can be heard Monday, Wednesday and Fridays at 4 and 8 PM US EST. This week we have an interview with Rod Rotundi, owner of the Leaf Cuisine Raw Restaurants in Southern California.
Please pass this information along to those who might be interested. [www.TribecaRadio.net] and, if you can give the station a link on your website (if you have one), we would be most appreciative. TribecaRadio.net... a truly independent radio station... radio as it was meant to be.
2) Sept. 2004
Hi, Rhio -
I was wondering if you or anyone you know has had experience with the Master Cleanser cleanse. I wrote to Frederic Patenaude, and he was extremely critical of it. The book makes it sound so good - I have heard that people swear by it, but haven't been able to find someone I actually can talk to who has followed the cleanse.
I am re-printing what Frederic wrote back to me. What is your opinion? I appreciate the feedback - I feel that I badly need to do a cleanse - I'm very healthy, but just feel I need to clean out - and wanted to try this because you don't have to take so much time off. I, like a lot of people, have a very busy life, and just keep putting off a cleanse/fast because of it.
Thanks again -
April, 2006 (note the date of my response to ER's 2004 letter. I will never get caught up with my email, but that means to me that interest in healthy living and the raw food movement is growing by leaps and bounds.)
My response to Frederic's evaluation of the Master Cleanser program is interspersed with his comments below. I offer this strictly and only as an exchange of ideas and information and it is not to be interpreted as medical advice of any kind.
I advice against the Master Cleanser.
Here is why:
The Master Cleanser recipe consists of warm water mixed with maple syrup, cayenne pepper, lemon juice and maple syrup.
It is claimed that the Master Cleanser "dissolves and eliminates toxins, cleanses the kidneys, purifies the glands and cells, and helps purify the liver."
This affirmation is of course based on nothing solid whatsoever. Please understand that there is no food that will cleanse the liver or purify the liver. Only the body has the ability to do so. Water is a carrying agent that is used to remove toxins out of the body. Lemon juice has no action on the body. Once it is digested, it doesn't help cleanse anything. Cayenne pepper is an irritant. Maple syrup is a simple sugar that is inferior to fruit sugar.
All the benefits that you would get from the Master Cleanser come from simply refraining from eating solid food for a few days. You would get better results if you fasted 3-4 days in bed rather than doing this "cleanse" for 7-10 days.
The Master Cleanser program is a form of fasting. There are those that believe that the word fasting should only be applied to abstaining from every form of sustenance except water. For those, raw juice fasting, raw energy soup fasting, green coconut water fasting or the Master Cleanser are not good enough. However, for others, such as myself, who understand that in today's world of rampant chemicals, pesticides, radiation and other human-made substances impacting our daily lives, these other forms of fasting are safer (for novice fasters) because while they allow the body to release toxicity, they do not do so in a damaging way. In other words, they mediate, buffer and/or slow down the release so that it is safe.
Frederic says "All the benefits that you would get from the Master Cleanser come from simply refraining from eating solid food for a few days." Water fasting is certainly beneficial for experienced fasters, but I contend that people who are new to fasting or who don't fast on a regular basis would do better to use one of these other forms of fasting for the reasons herebefore mentioned. Chemicals rapidly released into the blood stream of a faster can make them very sick, so it would be beneficial in the beginning to have the bulk of those stored chemicals released in a more buffered manner. Frederic says that "there is no food that will cleanse the liver or purify the liver. Only the body has the ability to do so." I believe that these statements are simply a play of semantics that don't address the issue. Certainly the body is the one that has the ability to heal itself, BUT, in order to do so, certain circumstances or conditions have to be met. And one of them is that the body must receive real food, raw food, organic food. Raw foods have vitamin, mineral, enzyme, hormone, phytochemical, electric, oxygen and other properties within them that are beneficial to the liver and other organs of the body. Some foods have particular qualities that would make them more detoxifying and/or supportive of liver functions. So, the truer statement would be that raw foods and juices, energy soups, green coconut water and the Master Cleanser program assist the body to do its detoxifying more effectively and efficiently. Out of all the raw food proponents, the ones, such as Dr. Norman Walker, who passionately advocated for raw juice fasting lived the longest and the healthiest lives.
I do agree with Frederic that maple syrup is inferior to fruit sugar. When I have done the Master Cleanser program, I have substituted a small amount of raw honey, but vegans may not want to do that. Maple syrup is a boiled product and is not raw.
Lemon juice is extremely alkalizing to the body. Some people think that because lemon juice is an acid juice that it is acid forming in the body, but the opposite is true, it actually promotes alkalinity. Any juice that alkalizes the system is extremely beneficial... so I do not agree with Frederic's statement that "lemon juice has no action on the body."
I do not recommend it also because I oppose to the use of cayenne pepper. I wrote in my book The Raw Secrets about cayenne pepper: "Cayenne pepper contains capsaicin, which is a very poisonous substance. You can easily prove to yourself the toxicity of hot peppers by observing your body1s reactions after eating them. The mouth salivates and the nose often runs with clear mucus or water. These are ways for the body to dilute the poison. The warm feeling that we get is the irritation of the digestive tract and stomach. The body temperature often rises as the body tries to get rid of this strong, toxic substance. Another argument against hot peppers and spices, is that children will refuse them. No one would give a hot pepper to a child."
The practitioner who has had the most practical experience with the effects of cayenne pepper as an extremely beneficial food, especially for the heart, is Dr. John Christopher. Dr. Christopher was an herbalist who lived in the last century and if you look up some of his work you would receive a completely different picture and idea about cayenne pepper from a practitioner who actually used it on his patients with excellent results. Dr. Christopher, in a videotape that I have of his, stated that he never once lost a heart attack victim because he always gave them cayenne pepper and the attack would be relieved in a matter of minutes because cayenne pepper is powerful heart food.
It is also claimed that the Master Cleanser "eliminates all unusable waste and hardened material in the joints and muscles." Again, this is simply hype. Only the body has the ability to remove unusable waste. The water is simply a carrying agent and the lemon juice, maple syrup and cayenne are digested or rejected and have no part to play in this process. You would get the same results from drinking water only for a day or two.
It is claimed that the Master Cleanser "builds a healthy blood stream." How is that possible? Blood stream is build by eating a variety of foods, and there is nothing special in maple syrup, cayenne pepper and lemon juice that will make that process better or faster.
It's also said that the Master Cleanser "relieves pressure and irritation in the nerves, arteries and blood vessels." Again, this just comes from not eating solid food for a few days. You would get the same results with juices, water, or any other type of "cleanse"
There is nothing special about the Master Cleanser.
The Master Cleanser cleanse is beneficial for all the reasons that I stated before... because it is a form of fasting, and fasting releases toxins from any part of the body that is holding them, such as in the fat cells, tumors and cysts. First the toxins are released into the blood stream, and then as the blood circulates and goes through the liver, kidneys and lymph glands, it becomes divested of those toxins and as a result you have a cleaner body and a cleaner blood stream. A cleaner blood stream is a healthier blood stream.
For those, like ER who wrote to ask me about this, the Master Cleanser makes it possible for most people who attempt it to continue to work and function while doing it. I would still suggest that for the first couple of times on this program, that they not give themselves a very busy schedule. It is best to do it over a long weekend or when you have a few days to devote to rest, should it become necessary.
There are many forms, ways and means that help a body to detoxify itself and I am one teacher, and student, that is open to the possibilities of many different pathways.
Diet and 80/10/10 Version of the Fruitarian Diet - Part 2
(For Part 1, please see Hotline for January 2006.)
The two diets above are very similar in that they advocate either all fruit or a lot of fruit. 80/10/10 is a fruitarian diet with very low protein and fat. It's called 80/10/10 because it advocates 80% fruit or carbohydrate, 10% protein and 10% fat.
To listen to and read about two opposing views of the above diets
a) Listen to 2 archived shows at TribecaRadio.net - look for them under Archives/Hooked on Raw with Rhio/Interview with Fred Bisci "A Caution about Fruitarianism" and Interview with Donna Perrone about her experiences with Natural Hygiene and Fruitarianism.
b) Read at Dr. Graham's
website for info on 80/10/10: http://www.foodnsport.com/mambo2/index.php?option=com_content&task=category§ionid=2&id=66&Itemid=60
This series is meant for people who are interested in the fruitarian or 80/10/10 fruitarian diet and are either on it or contemplating implementing it.
I thank all those
who have agreed to share and participate.
Dr. Graham sent me a communication in which he advised me to contact every person to make sure the letters were not altered and that they were genuine and I have taken his advice.
from Hannah Botham:
From a young age, I was drawn towards vegetarianism and veganism. This came about not only for ethical reasons, but also as a dietary rebellion against my family. Both my parents were overweight and seemed to face constant health struggles: my mother was diabetic, my father had heart arrhythmias and lived an extremely sedentary life because of a foot injury, and both of them seemed to be constantly retreating to the bedroom with a migraine, feeling under the weather, and other ailments. It terrified me that I might end up like them one day.
Our eating habits were horrendous, to say the least. Everything had to be drowned in sugar (I remember seeing my father dip bananas into the sugar bag before he ate them!), salt, or oils. Breakfast was usually cereal with sugar on top, toast with brown sugar, greasy hash browns, sometimes eggs with margarine. We ate a lot of meat, as well as huge portions of sugars and starches. I was slim when I was young, but once I hit my teenage years, I started piling on weight; no doubt from following my parents' eating patterns.
A turning point came when I was 15. I got notice at school during lunch hour that my dad was in the hospital, with what might be a heart attack. I remember staring at my food, which was a burger from across the school campus where my friends and I picked up lunch every day. I couldn't bear to eat it. I picked off the lettuce and threw the rest away.
Fortunately, it was a false alarm about the heart attack, and my father came home that night. But the doctor told him that if he didn't clean up his diet, eat less sugar, and eat more vegetables, he might not be so lucky next time. Suddenly, I became keenly aware of the diet-health connection: this life of obesity and sickness was avoidable. Before this point, I blindly ate what was served to me. If you had asked me at dinner what I'd had for breakfast, I probably wouldn't remember. Now, for the first time, I realized how powerful food was. At the time, I had a friend whose mother was heavily into the works of Herbert Shelton. I had eaten dinner with the family one time and thought it was the strangest meal I'd ever seen: no meat, eggs, or dairy. Before, I thought it would be terrible to have to eat like that; but after this incident with my father, I started to become curious about their eating habits. My friend lent me one of her mom's books, "Man's Pristine Way of Life," written by Shelton. Much of it was over my head at the time, but I think I finished the entire thing in one weekend. I was fascinated. That was the beginning of my journey into Natural Hygiene.
In the ensuing years, I learned more and more about Hygienic principles and began applying them to my own life. By the time I was 16, my diet was about 80% raw food, with fruit until noon, a salad, and one partially cooked meal. My health improved in leaps and bounds. I stopped eating meals with my family, who refused to buy me the foods I requested such as fresh fruits and vegetables. Instead, I took a job at the local grocery store, where I could get a discount on fresh produce. Socially I became quite isolated, and lost many friends who couldn't make peace with my dietary choices. I remained good friends, however, with the girl whose mother was a Hygienic vegan. We were the two oddballs throughout high school.
I maintained this lifestyle throughout my early years of college, at about 80% raw and prudently following other lifestyle habits, such as exercise, exposing my skin to sunlight, sleep, and so forth. It was at this time that I came across some publications of TC Fry. To make a long story short, I became convinced that fruitarianism was the natural diet of humans, and during my junior year of college, switched to a 100% raw diet of sweet juicy fruits.
Despite having eaten such a clean diet for years, the detoxification period was intense. I ended up dropping out for a semester because I was cleansing so deeply. After several months of battling intense cravings, losing hair, being bed-ridden with flu-like symptoms, and a host of other cleansing reactions, it was as if a door opened: I felt light, euphoric, and better than I ever had in my life. I returned to school, feeling like the world was my oyster, as they say.
I did lose quite a bit of weight at this point, although I assumed it was still a part of my detoxification period, so I was not concerned. The first sign of trouble appeared about a year into my fruitarian diet. One of my teeth, which had been bleeding and sensitive for some time, suddenly became quite loose; enough so that it visibly wiggled when I pressed on it. Though I had not visited a dentist in years, I went to the university dental school, where they had the dental students give examinations under the supervision of their instructors. The student who examined me did not know what to make of my situation. Apparently my teeth were in disrepair, with severe erosion and diseased gums. The instructor suggested I see someone more qualified, as I would likely need extensive surgery to repair the damage.
As I was not a fan of modern medicine or dentistry, I did not take the advice, and instead embarked on my first supervised fast, for 30 days. I had previously done very short water fasts on my own, but had read that longer fasts had been successful in repairing teeth, among other things. I could write an entire book on my fasting experience, but to sum up: my gums seemed to improve during the fast but returned to their previous state as soon as I introduced food again.
At this point, I was still eating 100% raw, fruitarian diet. Though the logic of a fruit diet was still set in my mind, I began to read more literature, seeing if perhaps I was missing something. Occasionally at this time, I would experience intense cravings, especially for starchy foods or fats. My energy level, which was once very steady and predictable, was suddenly wavering. I thought perhaps I had moved into a deeper level of cleansing.
In the early 90s, I went through a period of personal tribulations, including some issues in a serious relationship I was in. Even now I'm not sure what happened, but I fell back quite quickly into unhealthy eating patterns. My Hygienic and fruitarian eating habits went down the drain. For a brief period, I binged on the unhealthiest things imaginable: cakes, cookies, doughnuts, pastas, ice cream. I gained over 30 pounds in a period of months. I came down with a severe case of bronchitis that had me bed ridden. I honestly never felt so awful in my entire life as I did at this time.
It took a long time of emotional and psychological healing, but eventually I returned to Hygienic eating, and then to 100% raw foods once more. I did not attempt fruitarianism again, but kept fruit as the staple of my diet, supplemented with greens, seeds, nuts, and avocados. As I see it now, this was similar to Dr. Douglas Graham's diet of 80% carbohydrates, 10% fat, and 10% protein, though the ratios were not as low as they should be. I ate large meals of fruit and a salad each day. However, I don't think I ate enough greens to provide proper nutrition, and I ate fruit meals frequently instead of large, infrequent ones.
I could never get back to the feeling of lightness, euphoria, and superb health that I initially felt on a raw Hygienic diet. I embarked on several more fasts, hoping they would cleanse me enough to bring back my excellent health. To my dismay, I would feel better only for a short while and then it seemed my health would decline even further. My teeth were a mess at this time, and I was also starting to have problems with joint pain and fatigue. I eventually opted for surgery to fix dozens (yes, dozens!) of cavities, although I refused to undergo the more invasive procedures the dentists told me I needed. I worried that my previous period of cooked food binging had made me toxic. I also worried that I needed to become a complete fruitarian again, and that the green salads, avocados, and nuts I was eating were somehow holding me back from true health.
After "Nature's First Law" was published, the raw food movement started booming. I became more involved with the movement, getting to know other raw foodists and Hygienists, attending events, and so forth. Although I met many people who were embarking on high fruit diets like myself, I also met others who felt that so much fruit was detrimental to health. This viewpoint was somewhat shocking to me, since the literature I'd read made it clear that fruit was the perfect food for humans. I began to doubt the diet I had chosen, and began looking at other approaches, wondering if inadequate nutrition was causing my current problems.
Later, I discovered that a man named Dr. Douglas Graham was promoting a high-fruit diet, and had been thriving on it for decades. I was still enamored with the idea of a fruit-based diet, and felt like this man and his program was a Godsend, and that perhaps he had the key to making a high fruit diet work. I attended several lectures and seminars and soon understood what I must be doing wrong: I was eating too frequently, perhaps not eating enough fruit to provide enough calories, and eating overt fats too often. I started charting my food intake, to make sure I didn't go above 10% fat. I loaded up on leafy greens. And I ate more bananas than I ever thought possible. In all fairness, I felt wonderful at first. It was almost the same feeling of purity and lightness that I had earlier in my raw food journey. To ward off cravings, I made sure I filled up on as much fruit as I cared for; it was always nice and ripe, and usually organic. However, my previous problems persisted, and new ones appeared as well. Along with poor dental health and intermittent fatigue, I started loosing hair in alarming amounts. My ankles began to swell up. I had to urinate frequently, even many times during the night. Minor cuts and bruises seemed not to heal, but remained on my body for months. Having made friends with other raw foodists at this point, some people encouraged that these were signs of a deep detox; others warned that it was not healthy for these things to be happening, and that I needed supplements or more protein.
Two years after officially starting the 80-10-10 diet, something terrible happened. While driving to work, I passed out in the car and rammed into a telephone pole near my home. Luckily no other people were injured, but I suffered whiplash and several broken bones, as well as some other minor injuries. I was unconscious until waking up in the hospital.
A blood test had revealed severe areas of deficiency, including B12 levels that were the lowest the doctors had ever seen. My potassium levels were high, suggesting impaired kidney function and an imbalance of electrolytes. I was low on many minerals such as zinc and calcium. I also had an amino acid disorder screening which showed protein deficiency; this was likely responsible for the edema in my ankles and the hair loss. One of the doctors said to me, "You're lucky to be alive". I'll never forget that. In all my years of striving for health, I had pushed myself to the brink of death.
This experience truly snapped me back into reality. When I had healed and returned home, I remember looking in the mirror and feeling a sense of dread wash over me. Something needed to change, because the path I had been on for so many years was obviously not leading me to health. Staring at my reflection, I realized I looked practically dead as it was, with my skin so pale and my hair thin and stringy. This was not health.
I made a bold decision at that point. I wanted to forget what I had read about fruit being human's ideal food, and I wanted to start from scratch. I did a complete 180 with my diet. I minimized my fruit intake, and started taking B12 supplements, eating more nuts and seeds, eating seaweeds, eating sprouts, eating sauerkraut, eating all those things Natural Hygienic logic tells us are not optimal. I even started steaming certain vegetables and eating eggs from my neighbor's hen.
What happened next was nothing short of a miracle. On this diet that I once would have thought was terrible and unnatural, my health began to improve. Slowly but surely, my hair regained its fullness, the edema went away, my skin stopped being dry. People began commenting that I looked healthy and vibrant; something I had not heard in the past. I had more energy than I did when I was a kid. Even my teeth improved, and my gums stopped bleeding.
Since that time, I have changed my mind about a lot of things. I no longer believe a high fruit diet is optimal for humans. Maybe if we were in the wild eating the high fiber, lower sugar fruits that grow naturally, it would be different. But the things we get in supermarkets are no comparison to the wild fruits, not nutritionally and not in terms of macronutrients. Natural Hygiene has many good principles, especially regarding healthy lifestyles, but the dietary recommendations are dangerously flawed and based on a logic that just doesn't work in this world.
I truly fear for people who get caught up in the same mindset I was in. It is so easy to overlook problems when you're convinced your doing the right thing. The first step to ruining your health, in my opinion, is closing off your mind to new possibilities. For those on the 80-10-10 diet, I can only hope that you follow your gut feelings and do only what brings you health. Perhaps some people are able to survive on that diet. I think for the majority, not. If you are not thriving, do yourself a favor and save your health before it's too late.
This is Valya. I wanted to tell you that my brother and I stayed on Doug Graham's 80-10-10 diet for over a month in the summer of 2003. We both felt very good. Sergei and I had lots of energy and we both felt very strong. However, after a month, Sergei started to get a little shaky and rather skinny-looking so he began to eat more fats again. I found it hard to stay on a no fat diet when everyone around me was enjoying exquisitely delicious raw foods.
Fats currently constitute about 25% (1 avocado) of my every-day diet, but I eat considerably less fats than I did before. I've noticed that the digestive system works flawlessly when a person eats almost no fats. For this reason, I sometimes go for a day or two without fats just to give my body a brake.
For people with candida, the 80-10-10 diet works miracles! I have seen these miracles with my own eyes. The only problem is that many people simply cannot stay on such a diet. For most, just staying on raw foods is challenging enough. Hopefully though, we can all work together to make things work. Gourmet chefs like you can help people transition onto raw foods and begin to eat healthier, and Doug and Roz can help them refine and personalize their diets after a few years.
I hope this information is useful,
Lots of love and hugs, Valya (\o/) (\o/) (\o/)
P.S. Say hi to Lee.
Rhio: I thank Valya for sharing her experience and opinion and also particularly
for her attempt at peacemaking between the raw food fruitarian promoting advocates
and those of us that promote eating a wider variety of raw foods from all categories
(except meat, fish and dairy). I reject the "gourmet" designation.
Although my book does contain lots of delicious gourmet recipes, it has been
my experience that long term successful raw food eaters have learned to listen
to their own bodies and in so doing are satisfied with much simpler food most
of the time. And when our bodies want something more "gourmet" then
we listen to that too.
I respectfully disagree with Valya's last sentence evaluation, which seems to imply that fruitarianism (as advocated by Doug & Roz) is the utopia and a wider more inclusive "gourmet" diet is just a transition to that utopia. As the many letters from people who have tried to reach this so-called utopia show, it does not work for a majority of people and they are harming themselves in the process. There is a new book out called Raw Spirit, What the Raw Food Advocates Don't Preach by Matt Monarch and in it Matt shares many insights he received from Dr. Fred Bisci and also his own experience when he eats too much sweet fruit. I highly recommend the book and have done an interview with Matt for my radio show which will be archived soon.
Valya says that she saw miracle improvement of candida for people who went on the 80/10/10 diet, but there are many people that have the opposite experience. Robert O. Young, PhD is an author, speaker and researcher who advocates removing all fruit from the diets of candida sufferers and others too. I do believe that Dr. Young has gone too far in the other direction, and that once the candida improves substantially, some fruit could be carefully reintroduced, but Dr. Young believes and advocates otherwise. You can find Dr. Young's ideas and information in his books, The pH miracle and Sick and Tired? Reclaim Your Inner Terrain.
8, 2006 6:50:28 PM EDT
it's great that u r covering the fruitarian diet and the 80/10/10 version. very dangerous stuff.
also re: master cleanse: sometimes it's not what u do that gives you health but what you don't do. so if the master cleanse keeps people from eating the junk they usually do, it would probably be beneficial. also, water fasting is too severe for some people so better they do something than nothing to detoxify,
keep up the great work u r doing.
congrats on your radio station.
Jun 8, 2006, at 1:03 AM, Marcia Hershkowitz wrote:
Rhio is dynamite. She's a great teacher and entertainer, activist, artist. I've had the pleasure of videoing her for Accent on Wellness and also attended many of her events. I associate her name with excellence. And Leigh's terrific too! Check this out and connect with her and tell your friends!
Hope everything is great with you.
We really appreciate that you passed our information on, and we thank you for the kind words and lovely sentiment.
With blessings and peace,
Subject: Re: Raw Energy Hotline - May 2006
Date: June 8, 2006 12:40:12 AM EDT
Mitchel: Frederick wrote "Lemon juice has no action on the body. Once it is digested, it doesn't help cleanse anything. Cayenne pepper is an irritant."
Rhio, your newsletter is wonderful, and your answers to Frederick are right on target. Lemon juice alkalinizes the body, as you point out (though I would like to understand the mechanism by which this citric acidy fruit alone does this). And Cayenne is great for the heart, actually reduces blood pressure (exactly the opposite of black pepper). It could also be taken in capsules for those who want to bypass the mouth and esophagus.
Rhio: Frederic says that "there is no food that will cleanse the liver or purify the liver. Only the body has the ability to do so." I believe that these statements are simply a play of semantics that don't address the issue.
Rhio: Certainly the body is the one that has the ability to heal itself, BUT, in order to do so, certain circumstances or conditions have to be met. And one of them is that the body must receive real food, raw food, organic food. Raw foods have vitamin, mineral, enzyme, hormone, phytochemical, electric, oxygen and other properties within them that are beneficial to the liver and other organs of the body. Some foods have particular qualities that would make them more detoxifying and/or supportive of liver functions.
Mitchel: Especially good for the liver are dandelion greens (and teas & juices made from them), burdock root, and as an herb: Milk Thistle.
Jun 6, 2006, at 6:08 PM, Lennie Mowris wrote:
Subject: in fairness
I was disappointed when I didn't hear back from you. It was my impression that you were trying to give a fair assessment of Dr. Doug Graham's program by posting the negative experiences in your newsletter. I have heard Dr. Graham say nothing but kind things about you and hoped that perhaps as a long-time colleague you would be just as inspired to post positive stories as the negative ones. I know that there are negative stories, but I also happen to know that the people who experience them are not applying what Dr. Graham is actually saying. Typically they are not exercising enough or eating enough greens and vegetables. I would hope that we could paint the most accurate picture of Doug Graham's 80-10-10 program with people who have succeeded and continue to thrive with his recommendations.
There is nothing to be disappointed about because this is the first time I have heard from you. I get a lot of email, so if you did email me before, it was probably lost in the shuffle and I did not see it. At this point in time because of the volume, unfortunately, I am not able to answer all of my email, but in your case, because it is part of an ongoing discussion and exchange of information on fruitarian and 80/10/10 diets, I will answer and also post our exchange in the FEEDBACK section of my May 06 Hotline.
Perhaps you missed my January 2006 hotline in which I posted a letter from Janie Gardener which reflects her experience and presents 80/10/10 in a positive light. You can view that by going to www.rawfoodinfo.com and looking in the Hotline section.
How would you know that people who experience negative results from the 80/10/10 are not applying Dr. Graham's principles correctly? Have you spoken to them or monitored them in some way?
I believe that you are just repeating the mantra "if you fail on 80/10/10, you are not applying it correctly", and in my opinion, that is not a good enough answer when people are being hurt. Also, when I hear a statement like the aforementioned one, which I have heard numerous times from 80/10/10ers, it closes the conversation because then nobody can be correct except the 80/10/10ers. Everyone else is... just not doing it right.
I have tried to maintain an open and cordial relationship with Dr. Graham and while I do agree with many of his ideas and teachings, 80/10/10 is not one of them.
If you read my January 2006 hotline, then you would become aware that the whole conversation and exchange started when a whole slew of letters which reflected negatively on 80/10/10 were erased from Dr. Graham's chat board. Dr. Graham has never satisfactorily answered why he allowed this to happen in a chat room which he moderates. He told me he was not aware of any negative letters being removed, but he did not offer to investigate the situation, saying that he was only the moderator, but not the owner of the chat room. Even after he did become aware of it, he never, to my knowledge, has answered any of these people that experienced negative results. He never asked me for the letters or emails. The only thing he did tell me regarding the letters was to make sure they were authentic because he doubted they were. But why would he doubt the authenticity of letters he claims to never have seen?
So I took Dr. Graham's advice and contacted each and every person who wrote the letters and asked for their permission to use them for my hotline.
If you are on the 80/10/10 diet and would like to write about your experiences with it, I would be happy to include your letter in one of my hotlines on the subject.
Jun 7, 2006, at 4:36 PM, Lennie Mowris wrote:
Plus response from Chase
I appreciate you getting back to me. I understand an abundance of email, I deal with quite a bit of it myself so I will try to keep this as brief as I can.
Lennie: I was a very active member and one of the primary educators of Doug's Vegsource board at that time. I also had a phone conversation with Chase when he first began 80-10-10 because we were both living in Atlanta. It was partly my results with the program that inspired him to try because I have gained about 20 pounds of muscle on this program. Going from a very trim 110 pounds 6 foot tall girl to 140 pound while dropping 12% body fat. I have read all the letters, when Chase originally sent them and in your hotline and even within them I can point out things that explain how they were not applying the program. Not to mention that many of the people were people who came to the board seeking advice which often came from Doug, me, and Janie Gardener (as we were the only members of the board at the time who fully understood the program). In my last letter I expressed that I knew you posted Janie's response in your last newsletter, but I felt that it was a misrepresentation because the number of people who are succeeding far outweigh the people who aren't. It's just that the people who are succeeding don't participate in the Vegsource board or any other because they don't need to. I personally know Janie very well, and she and I tried to help Chase succeed and explain this aspect to him and others.
I was shocked to find out from Lennie by phone back then that her and her man
actually had been recommended to drink a gallon of orange juice a day to gain
weight. This is bad advice since OJ is known to cause more insulin bursts than
coca cola in America according to Dr. Colgan, PhD Biochemistry, plus it isn't
eating a natural raw fruit diet as 811 advocates. It is drinking the juices
of a very hybrid fruit-- not even a smoothie which is the whole fruit.
Lennie: Doug, did not have those posts removed. Those letters were posted to the board at a time when Doug, me and Janie were all away or sparsely available. We were not available to answer them and likely Doug never saw them because he was not around. Vegsource removed the posts due to requests of many of the active members there.
Chase: Both Doug and Lennie replied to the posts on that string of them, or in Lennie's case, the string created on them while they were on the board. She asked Doug a question in her post. which was to the effect of what is going on here if all these people in the emails on the diet are having dental problems and I have had tons (she gave specifics) of dental problems myself, Doug what is going on here?
Lennie: Chase took to virtually spamming the board and his presence upset many participants. Complaints were being made about him to Doug, to Vegsourcce and to me (everyone knew my relationship to Doug and took to emailing me as well). Doug actually let all of this go on for quite some time because he felt it was healthy for the board to get stirred up. He enjoys controversy and lively debate. In the end it was Vegsource who removed the posts due to what they deemed was their disrespectful nature and the complaints they were receiving. It wasn't the negative stories he was trying to block as Doug wasn't there to request it.
Chase: I QUESTIONED the diet looking for answers from Doug on the board that couldn't give adequate ones, this was my life and health at stake here, so forgive me if my motivation and frequent presence was seen as spamming. Funny how Janie who posted as much as me in support of 811 though, was never mentioned here by Lennie as Spamming the board. That characterization has more to do with my position on the diet, than participation in that board.
I am quite sure some that disagreed with the questioning of the health of the diet they were on and weren't happy about it. I know if I was still caught up in the dogma and a true follower of Doug's I wouldn't be either. However I am more interested in the truth than having everyone like me, or towing the partyline or watching me and others suffer for the love of Doug's or the Raw Vegan Dogma.
was nothing personally disrespectful about those emails that were removed, nor
in my comments to Doug. This is why Doug and I were able to correspond infrequently
by email right up until after the emails were removed. Yes Doug responded on
the string of emails himself saying something very flippant/cocky and downright
uncaring in response to those that suffered on the diet. Something to the effect
of "the successful climb ever higher while the others stay below."
The room erupted against him and this very egotistical uncaring letter.
Lennie: It is not a mantra that I repeat but 5 years of my own experience with helping people transition to this lifestyle privately and through Vegsource. Everyone I have seen succeed is doing what Doug recommends. Everyone I have seen fail is not exercising enough, eating enough greens/vegetables, getting enough sleep/rest, getting enough sunshine, or maintaining their emotional health etc. These are ALL aspects of the program. If you only eat the ratio 80-10-10, success will likely not follow. Many people do not realize the scope of what he is suggesting and think this is solely a "high-fruit diet." When in fact by the numbers he is recommending more greens and vegetables than even the people who promote green smoothies. People don't often understand this, they feel they need to be eating mostly or only fruit with almost no fats. I eat fatty foods nearly every day but I am exercising enough that this doesn't disrupt the ratio because my total calories increase. This also means my need for greens increase and I consume roughly 1.5-2 pounds of vegetables/greens on a given day, sometimes more. Being active is a HUGE part of this program and without vigorous activity you are not actually doing 80-10-10.
Actually being active in my case such as working out with weights and running
during the program, or doing marathons as in the case of Tony T who passed out
while running or going through any sort of stress such as growth and exercise
that Denise was experiencing at 17, only exacerbates any deficiencies on the
diet. Lennie may also be at risk for this, being 19 when I talked to her, and
already on Doug's program for years. It is well known that his diet causes Ammenorhea*(Loss
of a woman's period) This may be even more dangerous to a developing female
still going through puberty in their teens on such an inadequate diet.
Notice both Denise and Hanna in separate emails report the same problems on blood tests of B12 deficiency, Too much potassium, etc, Also look at the blood tests of the Marathon runner Tony the Tiger that you haven't published yet. What is really telling is that all of these people have had blood tests to reveal the problems of the diet. What Blood tests PROOF to show the success of it have Lennie, Janie or Doug put forward for our consideration?
As well if they weren't doing it right as claimed by Lennie who isn't personally supervising them. Then what part weren't they doing right that was supposed to supply the missing B12, reduce the overabundance of potassium to sodium and lack of Amino acids that showed up on their blood tests. Or what part of the diet wasn't the marathoner doing that would have prevented his pre diabetic condition that only resolved itself after he reduced his fruit to 2 pieces a day?
Lennie: If you would like to hear the stories that Chase did not and would never have access to I would gladly compile them for you. After my years of study I have met and become close to many people who thrive with this lifestyle. They come to Doug's events and lectures not to boards intended for support. They are recovering from Type 1 diabetes, IBS, CFS, Fibromyalgia, Depression... they are ultra marathoners, professional athletes, and others seeking peak health. The one thing we all have in common is our level of activity and the amount of time we've put into learning what Doug teaches directly from personal contact with him. If you are trying to learn 80-10-10 from Vegsource alone then you will likely never understand the full story.
I AGREE that there are many untold stories that many of us just don't know about.
I am sure there are some temporary improvements for someone coming from a SAD
diet in the first few weeks or months on the program as they get all these fruits
in their diet after not having any all their life and living on coffee, cigarettes
and salami. However from reading and experiencing it is obvious that after many
months of adding all this good stuff in and still not getting critical nutrients
(B12, sodium, amino acids and too much fruit sugar) that their condition begins
to deteriorate (cavities, root canals, hair loss, skin problems, nail loss,
frequent diabetic like urination, anxiety/depression/spacey.
The more they exercise or put stress on their body (work, school, relationships, finances, puberty etc) in the face of these missing nutrients the further and quicker they dig that HOLE DEEPER for their health. Unfortunately exercise in the face of inadequate nutrition is now a recognized medical disorder that can actually make things worse than if that person didn't exercise at all. The name the medical community has given to the disorder is "The Sharon Stone Disorder" where this actress suffered a heart attack in the face of exercising with an improper diet. Many others have been added to the list of suffers some contracting testicular cancer and others conditions. For a list of such athletes feel free to contact the Colgan Sports Nutrition Institute at email@example.com
Rhio: I haven't heard about "The Sharon Stone Disorder" but I believe, if I'm not mistaken, that Sharon Stone had a brain aneurism, not a heart attack. Aneurisms may be caused by a copper deficiency.
Chase: "If you're having problems with a diet, then it's probably the diet causing your problems and not your inability to stick with its tenets," Quote from Ward Nicholson.
Check on perfectionistic/ideal diets
In 1998 when there were previous Guru's using that blame the victim for the crime excuse diet guru's used to justify the many failures to thrive on it. Even if someone were following 811 only 50%, they should be receiving close to 50% of the benefit of pure health, and certainly doing better than Joe average SAD eater that never heard of the diet.
However it is often the opposite as these emails attest to, and the blood results from their Dr.s verify. For God forbid they should not be receiving any benefit on 811 and actually deteriorating on the diet. However this is actually the case. It's amazing how since I learned about the common symptoms on the diet, how often they are reported on the vegsource board in posts of newbies on the diet, with nails and hair falling out. It is stunning the accuracy of the exact symptomology of the diet. I mean I can count 3 of the emails where they report passing out on the diet due to electrolyte imbalances, whats the odds of that, let alone from 3 separate people reporting. I can also report that of the blood tests, that 2 of them were diagnosed with a B12 deficiency among the lowest the Dr's had ever seen.
Common symptoms to most of 811 being:
Teeth/gum cavities/root canals
Frequent Urination that is a symptom of diabetes
Hair falling out, skin flaking, nail problems,
Reduced sex drive or capacity,
Ammenorhea (loss of female period)
Getting Glasses/eyesight problems due to pre diabetes from the excess fruit
After a burst of energy, Fatigue, lack of energy, basically the roller coaster of the Excess Fruit Sugar Blues!
Ladies and Gentlemen, these are not signs of health. Detox it certainly is not, when these problems also show up in these numerous participants blood tests For example in BOTH Denise's and Hanna's emails (people that don't even know each other) they both had
1. B12 Deficiency
2. Imbalance of Electrolytes (it is impossible to get enough sodium to balance the excessive potassium on the diet) Suggesting Impaired Kidney Function, a Heart Arythmia, and for 3 participants on the diet it is likely the cause of them passing out.
3. Individually they reported blood as being anemic, zinc and calcium deficiency. Along with a folate deficiency that was likely caused by the B12 deficiency.
4. Protien Deficiency revealed by amino acid test, that likely caused swelling/edema in ankles, T-Cell count in thyroid disturbed because body is burning muscle due to not enough protien and hair falling out
compare the various blood tests all these people had when they were brought
near their near death experience to know that this isn't Detox, actual blood
test results are quite and indictment, proving it's a Deficiency on the Dr D-Day
L:ennie: I will give you my personal story in a separate email.
Best wishes to you,
Your experience and your response will be a part of my next newsletter, as well as an email interchange that I had with Doug. Do you have a website?
Yes, please put me in touch with others who are doing the 80/10/10 successfully. I would like to talk with them personally or through email.
And if you want to point out in the letters that I've already posted what they did wrong, go ahead and I will make that a response to their letter and give it to them (in case they want to respond.) Unfortunately, a lot of them have moved on.
Thank you for participating.
With blessings and peace.
I want to thank you for your openness and willingness to hear and present all sides. I will go through as many of the old letters as I can in the time that I have, which is like you very limited. I will also have people who are successful with 80-10-10 contact you directly so that you may know the authenticity of the participants. I understand that receiving testimonials from me may seem suspicious. I will however tell everyone to use the subject "80-10-10 Success", so that you may be able to tell them apart from your abundant email.
Many blessings to you,
The Fruitarian and 80/10/10 Series to be continued...
Until next time,
Yours for amazing health,
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